Chairman Mel Joos called a regular meeting of the City of Washington Planning Commission to order at 6:30 p.m. on Wednesday, May 2, 2007, in the Training Room at Fire Station No.1.

Present for Roll Call were Commissioners Jeff Borders, Gary Moehle, Doug Wilson, Mel Joos, Mike Brown, Bill Hartter, Jeff Fuerst and Bill Bradle. Commissioner Arnie Wiltz was absent due to recent surgery.

Also present was P&D Director Jon Oliphant, City Administrator Bob Morris, City Engineer Ken Newman, Alderman Jim Gee, Alderman Bob Brucks and City Clerk/Planning Commission Secretary Carol Moss.

Commissioner Fuerst said that prior to approving minutes from the last meeting, he would like to clarify that on Page 2 paragraph 8, that discussion was regarding the 95% compaction issue. He said that just reading the paragraph does not make much sense unless one is aware of the subject of discussion. Also added was ribbed polyethylene pipe to the fourth sentence. That sentence will read "Washington is the only community in the area where ADS type pipe cannot be used." Also, on Page 2, Paragraph 13, Commissioner Fuerst pointed out that his comment in that paragraph was in reply to Commissioner Moehle asking Commissioner Fuerst's opinion about the road compaction issue. Commissioner Hartter moved and Commissioner Bradle seconded to approve the minutes of the April 4, 2007 Planning Commission meeting as amended. Motion carried unanimously by voice vote.

Copies of recent changes to Zoning Code/Subdivision Code Amendments were distributed just prior to the meeting. P&D Director Oliphant indicated that the changes are very minor and enumerated on where the changes occur.

The Agenda was reviewed and stood as presented and there was no new business.

Old Business - Zoning Code/Subdivision Code Amendments - Chairman Joos stated that this is an open forum meeting and probably the best way to proceed with this discussion is to go through the minutes from the last meeting and address any issues that were raised during that meeting. He stated that he believes that what staff is attempting to do in updating the Code is a wonderful thing, but it is important that we do what is best for the community as a whole when making changes.

City Administrator Morris pointed out that the Public Services Committee discussed the backfill compaction issues, and that is where those amendments came from. Chairman Joos asked who then generates the wording and Morris replied staff.

Chairman Joos said that prior to getting into in-depth discussion he would like for each member of the Planning Commission to introduce themselves, tell how long they have been on the Planning Commission and their line of work. Commissioner Doug Wilson is a civil engineer and works for N. E. Finch Construction; Commissioner Jeff Borders is a civil engineer with a masters in environmental and owns and operates WECO in Eureka; Commissioner Hartter owns a construction company and has been in the construction field for over forty years; Commissioner Mike Brown is a lifelong resident of Washington and a Caterpillar employee; Chairman Mel Joos has worked in the trades most of his life, has managed power plants and currently is a construction manager for PIPCO; Commissioner Bill Bradle is a retired Caterpillar maintenance foreman ; Commissioner Jeff Fuerst is a contracting business owner doing heavy construction work, and he has run field work. Commissioner Gary Moehle is a real estate developer and has been for many years, and he stated that he has worn many hats during those years. Commissioner Arnie Wiltz was absent but he was a Plat Officer/Zoning Officer for the City for many years, has been a member of the Planning Commission for many years and is a retired Caterpillar employee.

P&D Director Oliphant told the Commissioners that all revisions are underlined & are in bold print. Commissioner Moehle said that he specifically asked at the last meeting that new information be forwarded to the Commission prior to this meeting so that they would have time to study that information. He said that he is reluctant to discuss any of this that was distributed this evening because of not having it prior to this meeting. Chairman Joos indicated that he has no problem with discussing what has been changed. Commissioner Fuerst asked if just the 4-5 changes can be discussed.

Discussion began with changes to 152.021 (H) - Commissioner Fuerst asked the process of this coming to the Planning Commission. City Administrator Morris replied that staff met with the Public Services Committee and discussed street construction standards. Commissioner Fuerst asked if even with compaction there are still problems with settling, etc. City Engineer Newman replied there are still problems. Commissioner Fuerst asked if that is why the change to requiring setting over a winter. City Engineer Newman noted that density testing has pretty much been ignored by the development community, and the City has not put much emphasis on this before, but he said he believes that it can be shown that most of the problems experienced will lead back to not wintering over. City Administrator Morris pointed out that there is not regular onsite inspection of utilities and streets. If this were done it would be done by the developer's engineer at the developer's expense. There is also no regular oversight of backfilling and compacting. Commissioner Wilson inquired about warranty period and Administrator Morris stated warranty period is one year and the wintering over is just added protection. City Engineer Newman pointed out that the 'wintering over' wording is not new wording. Commissioner Bradle said that at the last meeting the question was is it really necessary for the wintering over, if proper compacting is done. Administrator Morris replied that if we had regular inspections, and if we could be assured that lifts were going in , etc., and that proper compaction was done, we would not need to winter over. We get failures in spots on some streets that have wintered over and are only two years old.

Chairman Joos asked City engineer Newman the average depth of sewer lines and City Engineer Newman replied 12'. Joos said that he has gotten information from Clark Engineers regarding depth of pipe and there are all different depths recommended. Average frost depth is 36". Chairman Joos went on say that if we do not enforce current code, why do we need additional rules. Administrator Morris replied that staff will enforce current code but contractors are not going to like it because they are going to have to have their engineer on the job. It is going to cost them additional money and they are not going to like that.

Commissioner Fuerst stated that his company has developed a method to get the 95% compaction and they take samples and they do the work twice. They do this to protect themselves. If proper compaction and density testing is done, proof roll will tell the story. They do not have good results with proof roll when the sub base is too hard. A job should only be approved if it passes proof roll paving.

Administrator Morris indicated that we have chronic problems around manholes, storm drains, etc., and if this problem occurs where there is settling around manholes and storm drains it says there was improper compaction and the contractor should be responsible for repairs. Chairman Joos said that he asked a contractor why there is settling around manholes and the reply was that they do not have that problem because they use flowable material in those areas.

There was additional discussion with City Engineer Newman stating that there are cases where the first lift is being put on twice and there is one case where construction traffic busted up the road so bad that it cost $38,000 to make repairs. Commissioner Fuerst asked when was use of select backfill in sanitary sewer trenches put into use and City Engineer Newman replied before he came to the City. Engineer Newman went on to say that freeze and thaw compacts gravel and if gravel has not settled then we get an uneven bituminous surface. Chairman Joos asked what happens when CILCO comes in and cuts the street, and Engineer Newman replied they do not cut the street, CILCO bores and we use casing. Chairman Joos indicated that he believes that whoever puts the road in is responsible if that road fails in any way.

Commissioner Borders stated that in Trails Edge there was no quality control on the streets and asked who was watching them. He went on to say that Washington is growing so fast that it is practically impossible to watch out for the city. Commissioner Wilson said that it is the same in Peoria, no one is watching the contractors building the roads.

Administrator Morris indicated that the local developers do not have a problem with the wintering over factor, and staff sees it as a way to get better quality roads. Ideally, we would have someone out there watching all the time, but that is not feasible.

Chairman Joos stated that even if we were to do that, we live in Illinois, so we would still have problems. IDOT makes sure that all their roads are done correctly and they still have problems.

Commissioner Bradle asked the correlation between better roads and wintering over and said we need to find a way to enforce the 95% compaction. Engineer Newman replied that even with 95% compaction we will still have 5% settlement. Bradle said that roads in developments around Lincoln are built prior to home construction. General reply was that construction equipment, trucks, etc., would be very hard on those roads. Chairman Joos asked about blacktop thickness and Newman replied 8" aggregate base and 3" bituminous. Commissioner Hartter inquired about how Morton does their roads and Engineer Newman explained that process. Commissioner Fuerst stated that their public works requirements are basically the same as Washington but they mechanically compact and flood. Engineer Newman noted that they use CA6 and Commissioner Fuerst explained that is where flooding helps. Commissioner Fuerst explained that City Engineer Newman makes sure that things get done in Washington the way it should be done, explaining that Morton is very restrictive. They use 8" gravel with 3" blacktop and Engineer Newman stated that they also require fabric. Harrison Street is 100% fabric, but Commissioner Fuerst noted that his company did Polk and they did not use fabric. Chairman Joos asked if extending the time that the streets have to sit will help, because he stated that he is not convinced that wintering over will help. Alderman Gee stated that when he and Chairman Joos were discussing this matter, Joos' main concern was driving up costs for contractors. Chairman Joos replied that is correct. Alderman Gee indicated that quality comes with a price and Joos pointed out that this requirement has been on the books but has not been enforced. Alderman Gee asked what Joos recommends, do we winter over or what. Joos replied we comply with the requirements. Commissioner Bradle stated that no one can say that wintering over will improve compaction. Administrator Morris asked Commissioner Wilson his opinion of this and Commissioner Wilson replied that if requirement is to winter over, we will be able to find more of the problems, but a 6" rain would do the same thing.

Commissioner Fuerst asked if we do flooding do we still need compaction. Engineer Newman replied time equals compaction. Commissioner Wilson replied that is correct and it will also help find the bad areas. Newman stated the best policy is to do all of the underground work and allow the area to sit through the winter before paving. He stated that Kingsbury to Grandyle, Trails Edge Section 4 is a perfect example. It did not winter over and road is not good but it was done by the same company that did the other roads in the area. He went on to say that Hunter's Glen Section 2 wrapped up in early January and they were allowed to pave without wintering over, but they did fabric. The soil in the area is very bad but the road is very good.

Chairman Joos asked about streets where curb and gutter is in and there is someone living on the street, but the street has not been constructed. How does the city handle that as far as maintenance. Engineer Newman replied that the City will not plow or maintain anything until the bituminous is in.

Commissioner Borders stated that the City is going to inherit all streets and we have a responsibility to keep things right. We need to do the best job that we can to enforce the Code requirements. Administrator Morris indicated that there are ways to get this done without using City staff.

City Engineer Newman pointed out that all of this came about because there is one developer in the city who says the ordinance does not require wintering over, and that is why we are here this evening. Most of the developers who do business in the city do not have a problem with the wintering over requirements. Staff was attempting to take a simple approach to the matter, but it appears that it is not all that simple. Commissioner Bradle asked how we are going to enforce the wintering over and Administrator Morris replied staff will simply enforce what is on the books and tell developers that it has to winter over. The ordinance reads "recommended" and staff would like to see recommended changed to "required".

Commissioner Fuerst asked why the city accepts a road if a developer has not met all of the requirements and data has not been presented. Engineer Newman replied the city accepts the road because we are easy. Commissioner Borders replied that is exactly his point. Administrator Morris noted that every time the City gets hard nosed and attempts to enforce the code they are accused of driving off development. The last couple of years wintering over has been required, but that is where the trouble started because Engineer Newman said roads had to winter over and the one developer challenged by saying that the code only says "recommended" and not "required", and here we are debating something that should have been very simple. He went on to say that wintering over makes a better road. Chairman Joos asked the difference in a road sitting December, January. February and March instead of through the summer months and Engineer Newman replied the difference is moisture.

Chairman Joos asked the procedure if a manhole or a storm drain settles. Engineer Newman replied if that happens, the contractor is asked to make necessary repairs if it is within reasonable time, and otherwise we just go on. Engineer Newman noted that Easy Street is a good example of a street not wintering over. It was flooded and had a good density testing, but the manhole now sits above the street. The street did not winter over. Chairman Joos stated that settlement is a non-compaction issue and the contractor should be required to fix regardless.

Commissioner Bradle asked if there is a preferred time to pave and Commissioners Wilson and Fuerst replied it just has to be dry.

Chairman Joos said that he would like to see the contractor be responsible for a street if it settles and Commissioner Bradle suggested extending the warranty out to 5-6 years. Commissioner Fuerst pointed out that even a two year warranty would be a little long because of the fact that there are garbage trucks and other heavy traffic on streets that have an affect on the streets.

Alderman Bob Brucks told the Commission members that the Council puts a lot of faith in the Planning Commission and the Council will listen to what the Planning Commission has to say and what they recommend because they have a lot of experience here. The council relies on the Planning Commission's expertise to solve this problem of city streets breaking up and then the City having to make costly repairs.

152.021 (H) - this has been added and Commissioner Wilson stated that this is IDOT specifications. City Engineer Newman replied that is correct. The Commission agreed to this wording.

152.023(F) - this wording has also been added and is IDOT specifications. Commission agreed with wording. Engineer Newman noted that wording was not consistent with other sections so changes are being recommended to make all trench requirements consistent. Item (G) - Commissioner agreed with that wording also.

152.023 (A) - The Commission has requested a clarification on this as far as the change from a 2 year to a 25 year event. Administrator Morris replied the change from a 2 year event to a 25 year event was made in 2004 to the Storm Water section of the Code but was never made in this section, therefore the reason for the change. Commissioner Fuerst indicated that his main concern was that we were adding appurtenances, but if that has already been done and we are currently using this in the code he has no other questions. City Engineer Newman pointed out that in 2004 changes were made to store for a 25 year event but release at a 2 year rate. Commissioner Fuerst asked what that does and Engineer Newman replied it makes basins a lot bigger but that has been worked out. Commissioner Moehle said that he does not see a lot of water stored in the basin in Firethorn, not much more than a couple of inches. Commissioner Wilson noted that if basins are designed to store at a 25 year event rate and release at the 25 year rate then we have nothing more than a straight through pipe and that defeats the purpose of detention. City Engineer Newman stated that is the reason that the changes were made in 2004, so that we would store more and release at a lesser rate. Commissioner Fuerst indicated that the Planning Commission thought this was much more complicated than it really is. Engineer Newman pointed out that the only detention sized for a two year is the Rolling Meadows area and that is where a lot of the City's severe water problems occur. The Commission agreed with wording in 152.023(A).

152.023(C) - Commissioner Fuerst asked if the City is doing away with use of all F794 and going with all concrete. Engineer Newman replied that is correct, the City does not want thin PVC and will not approve any PVC including dual wall. There are more and more communities in the area who do not want F794, ribbed PVC or HDP, it is too thin walled between the ribs and fractures easily. Economically concrete is the best way to go. Commissioner Wilson asked if this takes exception to IDOT and Engineer Newman replied it does. Commissioner Fuerst asked if F794 is acceptable for private work and Engineer Newman and Administrator Morris replied it is.

152.025 (V) - the Commission agreed with this and it is already in place.

152.030 (J) - this pertains to much the same thing as above and the Commission was agreeable to this. This gives backfilling requirements for pipe in the ground.

152.030 (K) - Chairman Joos asked what percentage of contractors do jetting and Engineer Newman replied 100% but they don't use it all of the time. The City charges for water usage

Sidewalks - Commissioner Fuerst asked the thought process behind requiring sidewalks everywhere or payment of a fee if sidewalks are not done. Administrator Morris replied that practice has been to not require sidewalks in commercial areas. Freedom Parkway is a good example. This area will be fully developed in the future and there will be residential in the immediate area, and if sidewalks are not put in now, we are going to be sorry in the future. There will be cases where sidewalks in some commercial areas make no sense at all, but eventually taxpayers are going to have to pay for sidewalks, thus the wording that requires sidewalks unless exempted. Wilmor Road is a very good example of a commercial area where sidewalks are needed. Chairman Joos said he agrees with the sidewalk theory but the City exempts itself in some instances. Administrator Morris pointed out that topography and other factors can have an affect of whether sidewalks should be installed. Chairman Joos stated that last meeting minutes referenced sidewalks that go nowhere, but the City has streets that go nowhere. He said he believes that we need to look into the future as far as sidewalks because people are using sidewalks more now than they did ten years ago. Commissioner Fuerst stated that the point to the question at the last meeting about someone who did not put in sidewalks would just pay a fee, was that this is a blanket requirement so if someone does not want to put in a sidewalk they just write a check. He said he does not like that at all. Administrator Morris replied that the question is, do we want to see sidewalks in commercial areas as they develop or not, and do we want to have some provision for sidewalks. Chairman Joos and other members of the Commission agreed that just one person should not be responsible for making the decision of whether sidewalks should be installed or not. Administrator Morris noted that the three staff people who decide this usually do not agree. Dallas Road was used as an example with Chairman Joos saying that we are paying for sidewalks there because sidewalk and curb and gutter were never installed. Engineer Newman noted that right now topography does not allow either. He went on to say that the reasoning behind the paying for sidewalks being included in this amendment is so that the City is able to assess for both now so that the tax payers do not have to foot the bill at some time in the future. When Dallas Road is reconstructed and sidewalks and curb and gutter installed, the money will have to come out of the General Fund. Commissioner Bradle asked about charging those who live on the street so that they are the ones who pay for the sidewalk and not all taxpayers. Commissioner Fuerst asked about the process if a developer did not want to pay for sidewalk now. If the developer disagrees to both, what is the alternative. He said it only makes sense that sidewalk should be installed if the area hooks up to residential areas. There was additional discussion and it was agreed that some wording should be crossed out and rewritten. Administrator Morris indicated that right now specific situations would require sidewalk. Commissioner Moehle asked where sidewalks would go if Wal Mart were not there but came in after this amendment was adopted. Administrator Morris replied sidewalk would go in on Freedom Parkway frontage. Commissioner Fuerst said that he does not believe that is what this says. Commissioner Moehle said that he believes this has to be discretionary and Administrator Morris agreed. Commissioner Borders said he sees 152.022 (G) as a penalty. It does not make sense to make someone pay for something that is not feasible. He would only agree to something like this if there were residential nearby. Administrator Morris suggested that staff work on this section amendment and bring it back. Commissioner Wilson asked about 152.022 (E) and there was discussion about changing recommended to required. Administrator Morris indicated Menards would be an example. There are four outlots and there could be interior non-dedicated sidewalks to all of those outlots within the development. This is where we would run into problems if we use the word required.

It was agreed that this section needs some work and then be brought back before the Commission.

Commissioner Bradle moved and Commissioner Borders seconded to recommend approval of the amendments to the Subdivision Code and to the Zoning Code, striking 152.022 of the Zoning Code. Commissioner Moehle said he will vote no on this because he does not like to come into a meeting, be handed information and then asked to vote on that item. He stated that he had specifically asked that clarifying information regarding proposed amendments be forwarded to Commission members prior to the meeting so that they could go over all of that information. 
On roll call on the motion to approve amendments, striking Section 152.022 from the amendments, the vote was: 
Ayes: 7 Wilson, Fuerst, Hartter, Brown, Borders, Bradle, Joos 
Nays: 1 Moehle 
Motion declared carried.

Commissioner Fuerst thanked City Engineer Newman and City Administrator Morris and Aldermen Jim Gee and Bob Brucks for being here this evening. Their input cleared up a lot of the questions that were raised by the Planning Commission. Chairman Joos stated that the Planning Commission is very proud that almost everything that the Planning Commission discusses goes through the City Council as recommended by the Planning Commission. Commissioner Bradle indicated that this evening has been an education for all present.

At 8:51 p.m. Commissioner Moehle moved and Commissioner Fuerst seconded to adjourn. Motion carried unanimously by voice vote.